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snellen font is mirrored by default

Federico Bruni
Hi all

I've already asked this question here but received no help so far:
http://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/69954/snellen-and-sloan-fonts-are-flipped-mirrored

If you get the following font:
http://radagast.ca/snellen/snellen-font.zip

and try to use it in any program, you'll see that the default font is
the mirrored one.

It was built incorrectly?
.sfd file is included in the .zip file.
I've never used FontForge before and don't know what should I do to
make this font behave as expected. Can you give some pointer?

Many thanks in advance
Federico




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Re: snellen font is mirrored by default

Max Rabkin-2
I guess you have only tried to type lowercase letters -- but all the
Snellen optotypes are uppercase!

The font contains the original glyphs as uppercase letters and mirrored
copies as lowercase.

On 2016/04/18 2:43 PM, Federico Bruni wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I've already asked this question here but received no help so far:
> http://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/69954/snellen-and-sloan-fonts-are-flipped-mirrored
>
> If you get the following font:
> http://radagast.ca/snellen/snellen-font.zip
>
> and try to use it in any program, you'll see that the default font is
> the mirrored one.
>
> It was built incorrectly?
> .sfd file is included in the .zip file.
> I've never used FontForge before and don't know what should I do to
> make this font behave as expected. Can you give some pointer?
>
> Many thanks in advance
> Federico
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of
> your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and
> reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial!
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Re: snellen font is mirrored by default

Federico Bruni
You are right!
So simple :)
I did not even try the uppercase...

Thanks!

Il giorno lun 18 apr 2016 alle 15:18, Max Rabkin <[hidden email]>
ha scritto:

> I guess you have only tried to type lowercase letters -- but all the
> Snellen optotypes are uppercase!
>
> The font contains the original glyphs as uppercase letters and
> mirrored copies as lowercase.
>
> On 2016/04/18 2:43 PM, Federico Bruni wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> I've already asked this question here but received no help so far:
>> http://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/69954/snellen-and-sloan-fonts-are-flipped-mirrored
>>
>> If you get the following font:
>> http://radagast.ca/snellen/snellen-font.zip
>>
>> and try to use it in any program, you'll see that the default font is
>> the mirrored one.
>>
>> It was built incorrectly?
>> .sfd file is included in the .zip file.
>> I've never used FontForge before and don't know what should I do to
>> make this font behave as expected. Can you give some pointer?
>>
>> Many thanks in advance
>> Federico
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Find and fix application performance issues faster with Applications
>> Manager
>> Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into
>> multiple tiers of
>> your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly
>> and
>> reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial!
>> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/302982198;130105516;z
>> _______________________________________________
>> fontforge-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
>> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html


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Re: snellen font is mirrored by default

Federico Bruni
I'd like to ask some advice regarding this font.
As I'm building eye charts with LaTeX (I'll publish the source on
github with a free license as soon as I've finished), I have a problem
because some charts include numbers, which are not present in this font.

I've found a workaround¹ in LaTeX to use a different font for numbers
only, but I'm not happy at all with it because the height of the
numbers is different from the other letters.

Do you suggest changing the Snellen font and add the numbers there?
This means that I should learn FontForge... I see I should start from
here:
http://designwithfontforge.com/en-US/index.html

I'm not quite sure yet if it's worth the trouble.. but learning new
things is a pleasure.

What would you do?

Thanks
Federico

¹
http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/62603/how-to-choose-a-specific-weight-from-a-font-family-using-fontspec-and-xelatex

Il giorno lun 18 apr 2016 alle 15:58, Federico Bruni
<[hidden email]> ha scritto:

> You are right!
> So simple :)
> I did not even try the uppercase...
>
> Thanks!
>
> Il giorno lun 18 apr 2016 alle 15:18, Max Rabkin
> <[hidden email]>
> ha scritto:
>>  I guess you have only tried to type lowercase letters -- but all the
>>  Snellen optotypes are uppercase!
>>
>>  The font contains the original glyphs as uppercase letters and
>>  mirrored copies as lowercase.
>>
>>  On 2016/04/18 2:43 PM, Federico Bruni wrote:
>>>  Hi all
>>>
>>>  I've already asked this question here but received no help so far:
>>>  
>>> http://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/69954/snellen-and-sloan-fonts-are-flipped-mirrored
>>>
>>>  If you get the following font:
>>>  http://radagast.ca/snellen/snellen-font.zip
>>>
>>>  and try to use it in any program, you'll see that the default font
>>> is
>>>  the mirrored one.
>>>
>>>  It was built incorrectly?
>>>  .sfd file is included in the .zip file.
>>>  I've never used FontForge before and don't know what should I do to
>>>  make this font behave as expected. Can you give some pointer?
>>>
>>>  Many thanks in advance
>>>  Federico
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  Find and fix application performance issues faster with
>>> Applications
>>>  Manager
>>>  Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into
>>>  multiple tiers of
>>>  your business applications. It resolves application problems
>>> quickly
>>>  and
>>>  reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial!
>>>  https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/302982198;130105516;z
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  fontforge-users mailing list
>>>  [hidden email]
>>>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
>>>  http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Manager
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Re: snellen font is mirrored by default

David Perry-8
If you are proficient in LaTeX, it will almost certainly be less work to
learn how to compile your charts with XeLaTeX than to acquire good
skills in FontForge.  The fontspec package, used to select and control
fonts in XeLaTeX, has an option to scale a font to match the height of
uppercase or lowercase letters in the main font of the document.  See
§8.2 of the fontspec manual.  With XeLaTeX and fontspec, you can use any
font on your computer without going through the extra steps required to
add a font to LaTeX, plus you get easier (and much more up todate)
multilanguage support via Unicode.  Worth learning if you want to stick
with TeX.

David

On 4/21/2016 4:58 AM, Federico Bruni wrote:
> I've found a workaround¹ in LaTeX to use a different font for numbers
> only, but I'm not happy at all with it because the height of the
> numbers is different from the other letters.
>
> Do you suggest changing the Snellen font and add the numbers there?
> This means that I should learn FontForge... I see I should start from
> here:
> http://designwithfontforge.com/en-US/index.html
>


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Re: snellen font is mirrored by default

marty39
In reply to this post by Federico Bruni
What would I do? Is this the "Snellen" font that has no serifs on the H, J, M, U and a few others, and half serifs on the N? Bad. I would use fontforge to redo those caps, and a few others. The font is supposed to be slab-serif, and the letters should be recognizable and distinguishable. Only then would I extend the font to other characters.

Why are you making eye charts? Having read the web pages about optotypes and the Snellen and Sloan charts, I now know that less than half the letters of the alphabet are actually used in the eye charts. The others in the font are made up, and in my judgment, wrongly. The few characters actually used in the existing charts are enough to test visual acuity. The others are not needed and some of them might even be misleading.

If you want to make a full font that can be used for headlines or text that look like eye charts, then it might be fun to make a font with a true lower case, and maybe even extend it to a Cyrillic alphabet. I don't think Greek lower case would work.
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Re: snellen font is mirrored by default

marty39
marty39 wrote
If you want to make a full font that can be used for headlines or text that look like eye charts, then it might be fun to make a font with a true lower case, and maybe even extend it to a Cyrillic alphabet. I don't think Greek lower case would work.
I guessed wrong. Building the lower case glyphs in a 4x4 square (3x4 or 5x4 when necessary), the Greek lower case does work. It's the Cyrillic lower case that gives trouble. The ones that look like scaled down capitals can't be built as 4x4 and have to be scaled down 5x5. Numerals are OK. I haven't tried special characters; I think ampersand would be OK but I can't build dollar within 5x5.
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Re: snellen font is mirrored by default

Federico Bruni
In reply to this post by David Perry-8
Thanks David

Eventually I decided that drawing the chart in Inkscape was the easiest
and most flexible solution (I can easily add also the small numbers
above each line which tell what's the distance for normal eyesight).

inkscape command-line tool allows to export to PDF keeping the sheet
size defined in the SVG document (while rsvg-convert does not allow
this, AFAIK). I can even build a color negative version (white on
black) with a script, keeping in mind this bug:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/166396

I might give XeLaTeX a try again one day, but for now I'm happy with
Inkscape.

Il giorno gio 21 apr 2016 alle 16:36, David J. Perry
<[hidden email]> ha scritto:

> If you are proficient in LaTeX, it will almost certainly be less work
> to
> learn how to compile your charts with XeLaTeX than to acquire good
> skills in FontForge.  The fontspec package, used to select and control
> fonts in XeLaTeX, has an option to scale a font to match the height of
> uppercase or lowercase letters in the main font of the document.  See
> §8.2 of the fontspec manual.  With XeLaTeX and fontspec, you can use
> any
> font on your computer without going through the extra steps required
> to
> add a font to LaTeX, plus you get easier (and much more up todate)
> multilanguage support via Unicode.  Worth learning if you want to
> stick
> with TeX.
>
> David
>
> On 4/21/2016 4:58 AM, Federico Bruni wrote:
>>  I've found a workaround¹ in LaTeX to use a different font for
>> numbers
>>  only, but I'm not happy at all with it because the height of the
>>  numbers is different from the other letters.
>>
>>  Do you suggest changing the Snellen font and add the numbers there?
>>  This means that I should learn FontForge... I see I should start
>> from
>>  here:
>>  http://designwithfontforge.com/en-US/index.html
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Find and fix application performance issues faster with Applications
> Manager
> Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple
> tiers of
> your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly
> and
> reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/302982198;130105516;z
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html


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Re: snellen font is mirrored by default

Federico Bruni
In reply to this post by marty39
Il giorno gio 21 apr 2016 alle 17:34, marty39 <[hidden email]>
ha scritto:

> What would I do? Is this the "Snellen" font that has no serifs on the
> H, J,
> M, U and a few others, and half serifs on the N? Bad. I would use
> fontforge
> to redo those caps, and a few others. The font is supposed to be
> slab-serif,
> and the letters should be recognizable and distinguishable. Only then
> would
> I extend the font to other characters.
>
> Why are you making eye charts? Having read the web pages about
> optotypes and
> the Snellen and Sloan charts, I now know that less than half the
> letters of
> the alphabet are actually used in the eye charts. The others in the
> font are
> made up, and in my judgment, wrongly. The few characters actually
> used in
> the existing charts are enough to test visual acuity. The others are
> not
> needed and some of them might even be misleading.

Yes, I don't need all the characters.
Some of them doesn't look good, especially K, N and R.

I think I'll consider trying to improve them (or building them again
from scratch).
Low priority in my todo list...

Thanks for the feedback
Federico


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