designing wrt the borders

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Re: designing wrt the borders

MMacD
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 17:06:40 -0700 (MST), you wrote:

>So I'm about half-way through. I'll deal w/the spacing once I've laid all the
>control points. I guess the only thing I'll want to know first is where
>should I put the glyph in between the vertical borders. Is there any reason
>I shouldn't just push it far to the left and just adjust the right border or
>should I put it in the centre?

You have the right idea: put each glyph *close* to the left
border, and then move the right border in to match *visually*,
not mechanically.  I.e., it's right if it *looks* right; don't
try to even them up by counting pixels.  

A good rule of thumb would be to first look at the average amount
of space you're leaving inside characters, and then put half that
space (don't count pixels!) as "air" at the left and right of
each character.  Each vertical stroke will then look about the
same distance from every other vertical stroke, which will be
pleasing to the eye as well as trad-looking.

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Re: designing wrt the borders

Ultra
I bet you thought I gave up! No, I'm not a little perfectionist and a lot noob!
So, as per recommendations, I moved everything almost all the way to the left and controlled the spacing on the right (but I think in the end, I might just centre everything).
So here's a sample of the individual letters. It is "THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY (you guessed it!) PLATYPUS"

First of all, no points for guessing my biggest problem! After that, I know that some of the letters look uneven, but that's me trying to be authentic to the guide, So once I find out how to deal w/the space character, the only other thing I'll need to know (for now) is the spacing. You'll notice that I choose spacing great than the other fanboy rendering, the sample for which I posted earlier.
I also created more samples to give more variety to the letters. Also this alphabet has the following diphthongs/blends "EA", "EE", "NG", "ST", and "TH" included here:



I also notice that the editor I used seems to understand that the font never goes below the baseline. I take it that it's normal that it squishes the lines together like that. (gedit in Ubuntu)
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Re: designing wrt the borders

MMacD
Those look great, especially given  that the model is
nonstandard.  Very very nice indeed.  I think you're done, unless
you want to extrapolate and do up an entire ISO charset


On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 18:08:27 -0700 (MST), you wrote:

>I bet you thought I gave up! No, I'm not a little perfectionist and a lot
>noob!
>So, as per recommendations, I moved everything almost all the way to the
>left and controlled the spacing on the right (but I think in the end, I
>might just centre everything).
>So here's a sample of the individual letters. It is "THE QUICK BROWN FOX
>JUMPS OVER THE LAZY (you guessed it!) PLATYPUS"
><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/quick_brown_fox-2017-04-29.png>
>First of all, no points for guessing my biggest problem! After that, I know
>that some of the letters look uneven, but that's me trying to be authentic
>to the guide, So once I find out how to deal w/the space character, the only
>other thing I'll need to know (for now) is the spacing. You'll notice that I
>choose spacing great than the other fanboy rendering, the sample for which I
>posted earlier.
>I also created more samples to give more variety to the letters. Also this
>alphabet has the following diphthongs/blends "EA", "EE", "NG", "ST", and
>"TH" included here:
><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/thelma-busted-england-2017-04-29.png>
><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/bread-feet-baking-nap-extra-missed-2017-04-29.png>
><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/beckon-edgar-2017-04-29.png>
>I also notice that the editor I used seems to understand that the font never
>goes below the baseline. I take it that it's normal that it squishes the
>lines together like that. (gedit in Ubuntu)

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Re: designing wrt the borders

Ultra
Really? I thought at least someone would be able to find fault w/the spacing somewhere. And at the very least see that something was wrong w/the space character.

MMacD wrote
Those look great, especially given  that the model is
nonstandard.  Very very nice indeed.  I think you're done, unless
you want to extrapolate and do up an entire ISO charset


On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 18:08:27 -0700 (MST), you wrote:

>I bet you thought I gave up! No, I'm not a little perfectionist and a lot
>noob!
>So, as per recommendations, I moved everything almost all the way to the
>left and controlled the spacing on the right (but I think in the end, I
>might just centre everything).
>So here's a sample of the individual letters. It is "THE QUICK BROWN FOX
>JUMPS OVER THE LAZY (you guessed it!) PLATYPUS"
><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/quick_brown_fox-2017-04-29.png> 
>First of all, no points for guessing my biggest problem! After that, I know
>that some of the letters look uneven, but that's me trying to be authentic
>to the guide, So once I find out how to deal w/the space character, the only
>other thing I'll need to know (for now) is the spacing. You'll notice that I
>choose spacing great than the other fanboy rendering, the sample for which I
>posted earlier.
>I also created more samples to give more variety to the letters. Also this
>alphabet has the following diphthongs/blends "EA", "EE", "NG", "ST", and
>"TH" included here:
><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/thelma-busted-england-2017-04-29.png> 
><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/bread-feet-baking-nap-extra-missed-2017-04-29.png> 
><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/beckon-edgar-2017-04-29.png> 
>I also notice that the editor I used seems to understand that the font never
>goes below the baseline. I take it that it's normal that it squishes the
>lines together like that. (gedit in Ubuntu)

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Re: designing wrt the borders

MMacD
Well, if you really WANT me to find fault....

You've chosen a non-trad "brush-written" look.  But you have too
many nodes in each stroke, which creates an impression that while
the original chars (master pattern) were written with a brush,
the characters in the font were cast in molds handcut quickly by
a jobbing typefounder, whence the shaky edges that are also seen
in many Latin-charset fonts from  the 15th through 18th
centuries.

To get rid of that "handcut" look, get rid of the (many!) extra
nodes.  Each stroke should only have 3 nodes:  2 at the thick end
to set the max width, and then 1 at the pointy end to stop the
stroke.

Regularise the max width of each stroke.  You can probably do
that by actually using a ruler to measure, on the screen, the max
width of each stroke and adjusting those that are too thin or
thick.

Where a char is made up of multiple strokes, as they all are
except the I ("eye"), you have to figure out how to share one or
more of the 3-nodes-per-stroke so that the total number of nodes
in the char  is less than or equal to 3X the number of strokes.

I don't find any fault with your inter-char spacing.  There are a
couple of places where you could make a kerning adjustment
(kerning is the art of adjusting the spacing between 2 specific
chars, e.g. AV) but your general spacing doesn't look bad to me
at all, and I'm picky.  Now, as you use the font again and again
you'll probably start to think you can improve the "color"
(overall impression of regularity)  by tweaking the amount of air
around certain chars, so you should try it (on a *copy* of the
font!) and see.

My last critcism is that you forgot to create a space *char*,
which is why you're getting that box with 0020 in it.  (The space
char in a standard computer font is at position 32 decimal, 20
hex).

But really, and I'm not kidding, well done you!

On Fri, 5 May 2017 08:40:58 -0700 (MST), you wrote:

>Really? I thought at least someone would be able to find fault w/the spacing
>somewhere. And at the /very/ least see that something was wrong w/the space
>character.
>
>
>MMacD wrote
>> Those look great, especially given  that the model is
>> nonstandard.  Very very nice indeed.  I think you're done, unless
>> you want to extrapolate and do up an entire ISO charset
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 18:08:27 -0700 (MST), you wrote:
>>
>>>I bet you thought I gave up! No, I'm not a little perfectionist and a lot
>>>noob!
>>>So, as per recommendations, I moved everything almost all the way to the
>>>left and controlled the spacing on the right (but I think in the end, I
>>>might just centre everything).
>>>So here's a sample of the individual letters. It is "THE QUICK BROWN FOX
>>>JUMPS OVER THE LAZY (you guessed it!) PLATYPUS"
>>>&lt;http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/quick_brown_fox-2017-04-29.png&gt; 
>>>First of all, no points for guessing my biggest problem! After that, I
>know
>>>that some of the letters look uneven, but that's me trying to be authentic
>>>to the guide, So once I find out how to deal w/the space character, the
>only
>>>other thing I'll need to know (for now) is the spacing. You'll notice that
>I
>>>choose spacing great than the other fanboy rendering, the sample for which
>I
>>>posted earlier.
>>>I also created more samples to give more variety to the letters. Also this
>>>alphabet has the following diphthongs/blends "EA", "EE", "NG", "ST", and
>>>"TH" included here:
>>>&lt;http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/thelma-busted-england-2017-04-29.png&gt; 
>>>&lt;http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/bread-feet-baking-nap-extra-missed-2017-04-29.png&gt; 
>>>&lt;http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/beckon-edgar-2017-04-29.png&gt; 
>>>I also notice that the editor I used seems to understand that the font
>never
>>>goes below the baseline. I take it that it's normal that it squishes the
>>>lines together like that. (gedit in Ubuntu)
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> fontforge-users mailing list
>
>> fontforge-users@.sourceforge
>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
>> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

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Re: designing wrt the borders

Ultra
Ok, thanks for your input.

I guess w/all those points, I was being pretty perfectionist, even though I was pretty sure that amount of detail was just imperfections in the final rendering of the guide I was using. I don't think I'll be able to keep it down to 3-points-per, though, as some of the detail is visible w/the naked eye at 12pts.

Kerning is an interesting idea that I hadn't considered yet. Unlike what Design w/FontForge says, the only kerning tool the Metrics pull-down offers is Kern Pair Closeup.

The problem w/the space char isn't that I forgot, but that I don't know how (and I still don't know)

MMacD wrote
Well, if you really WANT me to find fault....

You've chosen a non-trad "brush-written" look.  But you have too
many nodes in each stroke, which creates an impression that while
the original chars (master pattern) were written with a brush,
the characters in the font were cast in molds handcut quickly by
a jobbing typefounder, whence the shaky edges that are also seen
in many Latin-charset fonts from  the 15th through 18th
centuries.

To get rid of that "handcut" look, get rid of the (many!) extra
nodes.  Each stroke should only have 3 nodes:  2 at the thick end
to set the max width, and then 1 at the pointy end to stop the
stroke.

Regularise the max width of each stroke.  You can probably do
that by actually using a ruler to measure, on the screen, the max
width of each stroke and adjusting those that are too thin or
thick.

Where a char is made up of multiple strokes, as they all are
except the I ("eye"), you have to figure out how to share one or
more of the 3-nodes-per-stroke so that the total number of nodes
in the char  is less than or equal to 3X the number of strokes.

I don't find any fault with your inter-char spacing.  There are a
couple of places where you could make a kerning adjustment
(kerning is the art of adjusting the spacing between 2 specific
chars, e.g. AV) but your general spacing doesn't look bad to me
at all, and I'm picky.  Now, as you use the font again and again
you'll probably start to think you can improve the "color"
(overall impression of regularity)  by tweaking the amount of air
around certain chars, so you should try it (on a *copy* of the
font!) and see.

My last critcism is that you forgot to create a space *char*,
which is why you're getting that box with 0020 in it.  (The space
char in a standard computer font is at position 32 decimal, 20
hex).

But really, and I'm not kidding, well done you!

On Fri, 5 May 2017 08:40:58 -0700 (MST), you wrote:

>Really? I thought at least someone would be able to find fault w/the spacing
>somewhere. And at the /very/ least see that something was wrong w/the space
>character.
>
>
>MMacD wrote
>> Those look great, especially given  that the model is
>> nonstandard.  Very very nice indeed.  I think you're done, unless
>> you want to extrapolate and do up an entire ISO charset
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 18:08:27 -0700 (MST), you wrote:
>>
>>>I bet you thought I gave up! No, I'm not a little perfectionist and a lot
>>>noob!
>>>So, as per recommendations, I moved everything almost all the way to the
>>>left and controlled the spacing on the right (but I think in the end, I
>>>might just centre everything).
>>>So here's a sample of the individual letters. It is "THE QUICK BROWN FOX
>>>JUMPS OVER THE LAZY (you guessed it!) PLATYPUS"
>>><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/quick_brown_fox-2017-04-29.png> 
>>>First of all, no points for guessing my biggest problem! After that, I
>know
>>>that some of the letters look uneven, but that's me trying to be authentic
>>>to the guide, So once I find out how to deal w/the space character, the
>only
>>>other thing I'll need to know (for now) is the spacing. You'll notice that
>I
>>>choose spacing great than the other fanboy rendering, the sample for which
>I
>>>posted earlier.
>>>I also created more samples to give more variety to the letters. Also this
>>>alphabet has the following diphthongs/blends "EA", "EE", "NG", "ST", and
>>>"TH" included here:
>>><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/thelma-busted-england-2017-04-29.png> 
>>><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/bread-feet-baking-nap-extra-missed-2017-04-29.png> 
>>><http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/file/n15486/beckon-edgar-2017-04-29.png> 
>>>I also notice that the editor I used seems to understand that the font
>never
>>>goes below the baseline. I take it that it's normal that it squishes the
>>>lines together like that. (gedit in Ubuntu)
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> fontforge-users mailing list
>
>> fontforge-users@.sourceforge
>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
>> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

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