Including references in kernings pairs

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Including references in kernings pairs

Ultra
I've tried what I can w/kerning pairs, but I've found that reference are not effected by them. The thing is, each glyph in my font has at least 1 reference and some go up to 5. Rather than make a kerning pair for each glyph, then go hunt down every reference and repeat would be unrealistic. Is there a way to fold all references into a single kerning pair? I understand there are these "kerning by classes", but I don't really understand that. Besides, FF seems to be pretty unstable if I do unexpected things w/the kerning.
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Re: Including references in kernings pairs

Dave Crossland-2
Gpos class based kerning

On Jun 13, 2017 9:46 PM, "Ultra" <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've tried what I can w/kerning pairs, but I've found that reference are not
effected by them. The thing is, each glyph in my font has at least 1
reference and some go up to 5. Rather than make a kerning pair for each
glyph, then go hunt down every reference and repeat would be unrealistic. Is
there a way to fold all references into a single kerning pair? I understand
there are these "kerning by classes", but I don't really understand that.
Besides, FF seems to be pretty unstable if I do unexpected things w/the
kerning.



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Re: Including references in kernings pairs

Ultra
So what do I do? I find the kerning features difficult to use and understand.
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Re: Including references in kernings pairs

Dave Crossland
It is a tricky problem, I am not aware of any libre software that empowers people to develop kerning; I hope in future a metapolator or trufont feature will be written by someone who needs to solve the problem and has the skills to do it :) 

On 14 June 2017 at 09:35, Ultra <[hidden email]> wrote:
So what do I do? I find the kerning features difficult to use and understand.



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Re: Including references in kernings pairs

Martin B. Brilliant
In reply to this post by Ultra

> On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:35 AM, Ultra <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So what do I do? I find the kerning features difficult to use and understand.
>

I don’t find the kerning features difficult to use and understand. Maybe that’s because I don’t use the metrics window or the metrics menu.

First, Encoding / Compact so I won’t have to search through empty space to find glyphs later.

Element / Font Info / Lookups, GPOS tab. (You can do this any time to get back to where you left off.)

Hit the Add Lookup button. Choose Type: Pair Position (kerning).

<New>, don’t click <New>, click the down arrow next to it and select Horizontal Kerning. <New> changes to Kern.

Accept the default Lookup Name or change it if you wish. Hit the OK button.

Back in the GPOS tab, you now have a lookup table selected. Hit the Add Subtable button. You can OK the default name.

Now you have a window with a lot of choices. The first is Use individual kerning pairs vs. Use a matrix of kerning classes. If you want to kern references along with the originals, choose classes.

Leave the checkmark on Fontforge will guess kerning classes for selected glyphs. Leave the rest of the parameters as they are until you have reason to try different values.

You can select all the glyphs, and delete classes later, or you can select only the glyphs you want to kern, but select all you want at the same time, Fontforge will put them in classes—unless you’re working with different alphabets that you don’t want to kern together (like Latin, Greek, Cyrillic….).

When you hit the OK button you get a big window with some parameters on top, two lists of classes, and a matrix below. When you select a box in the matrix you can see how the pair is kerned. If you don’t like it you can adjust the Kern Offset in the box above the display of the glyph pair.

If anything screwy happens, and it will, hit the Cancel button. Then double-click the subtable (hit the plus sign next to the table if you don’t see it) and you’re back in the big window. If you do a lot of work without trouble it’s a good idea to hit OK and come back, so you don’t lose your work when something screwy happens.

The metrics window can be used later as a final check but I don’t like to make adjustments in that window. It can be done but it keeps asking if I want to kern the class or the pair and picky stuff like that. You can try it and see if you like it; I don’t. I do all my kerning as above: Element, Font Info, Lookups, GPOS tab, expand by hitting the plus sign, double-click the subtable.

I hope this works for you.



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Re: Including references in kernings pairs

Jason Pagura
Thank you for writing all that out, Martin. I've been using Fontforge for over a decade and kerning had always perplexed me. The method you wrote here is non-intiutive, not least for not beginning with something in the Metrics menu like a sane user would expect. Now that I see it like this it makes sense. From a UI/UX standpoint I still think it's broken, but I know how to make it work now.

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Martin B. Brilliant <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:35 AM, Ultra <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So what do I do? I find the kerning features difficult to use and understand.
>

I don’t find the kerning features difficult to use and understand. Maybe that’s because I don’t use the metrics window or the metrics menu.

First, Encoding / Compact so I won’t have to search through empty space to find glyphs later.

Element / Font Info / Lookups, GPOS tab. (You can do this any time to get back to where you left off.)

Hit the Add Lookup button. Choose Type: Pair Position (kerning).

<New>, don’t click <New>, click the down arrow next to it and select Horizontal Kerning. <New> changes to Kern.

Accept the default Lookup Name or change it if you wish. Hit the OK button.

Back in the GPOS tab, you now have a lookup table selected. Hit the Add Subtable button. You can OK the default name.

Now you have a window with a lot of choices. The first is Use individual kerning pairs vs. Use a matrix of kerning classes. If you want to kern references along with the originals, choose classes.

Leave the checkmark on Fontforge will guess kerning classes for selected glyphs. Leave the rest of the parameters as they are until you have reason to try different values.

You can select all the glyphs, and delete classes later, or you can select only the glyphs you want to kern, but select all you want at the same time, Fontforge will put them in classes—unless you’re working with different alphabets that you don’t want to kern together (like Latin, Greek, Cyrillic….).

When you hit the OK button you get a big window with some parameters on top, two lists of classes, and a matrix below. When you select a box in the matrix you can see how the pair is kerned. If you don’t like it you can adjust the Kern Offset in the box above the display of the glyph pair.

If anything screwy happens, and it will, hit the Cancel button. Then double-click the subtable (hit the plus sign next to the table if you don’t see it) and you’re back in the big window. If you do a lot of work without trouble it’s a good idea to hit OK and come back, so you don’t lose your work when something screwy happens.

The metrics window can be used later as a final check but I don’t like to make adjustments in that window. It can be done but it keeps asking if I want to kern the class or the pair and picky stuff like that. You can try it and see if you like it; I don’t. I do all my kerning as above: Element, Font Info, Lookups, GPOS tab, expand by hitting the plus sign, double-click the subtable.

I hope this works for you.



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Re: Including references in kernings pairs

Dave Crossland
Hi

Yes, thank you Martin, this was great!

I added this info to the FF Manual :) 


On 14 June 2017 at 19:37, Jason Pagura <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thank you for writing all that out, Martin. I've been using Fontforge for over a decade and kerning had always perplexed me. The method you wrote here is non-intiutive, not least for not beginning with something in the Metrics menu like a sane user would expect. Now that I see it like this it makes sense. From a UI/UX standpoint I still think it's broken, but I know how to make it work now.

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Martin B. Brilliant <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:35 AM, Ultra <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So what do I do? I find the kerning features difficult to use and understand.
>

I don’t find the kerning features difficult to use and understand. Maybe that’s because I don’t use the metrics window or the metrics menu.

First, Encoding / Compact so I won’t have to search through empty space to find glyphs later.

Element / Font Info / Lookups, GPOS tab. (You can do this any time to get back to where you left off.)

Hit the Add Lookup button. Choose Type: Pair Position (kerning).

<New>, don’t click <New>, click the down arrow next to it and select Horizontal Kerning. <New> changes to Kern.

Accept the default Lookup Name or change it if you wish. Hit the OK button.

Back in the GPOS tab, you now have a lookup table selected. Hit the Add Subtable button. You can OK the default name.

Now you have a window with a lot of choices. The first is Use individual kerning pairs vs. Use a matrix of kerning classes. If you want to kern references along with the originals, choose classes.

Leave the checkmark on Fontforge will guess kerning classes for selected glyphs. Leave the rest of the parameters as they are until you have reason to try different values.

You can select all the glyphs, and delete classes later, or you can select only the glyphs you want to kern, but select all you want at the same time, Fontforge will put them in classes—unless you’re working with different alphabets that you don’t want to kern together (like Latin, Greek, Cyrillic….).

When you hit the OK button you get a big window with some parameters on top, two lists of classes, and a matrix below. When you select a box in the matrix you can see how the pair is kerned. If you don’t like it you can adjust the Kern Offset in the box above the display of the glyph pair.

If anything screwy happens, and it will, hit the Cancel button. Then double-click the subtable (hit the plus sign next to the table if you don’t see it) and you’re back in the big window. If you do a lot of work without trouble it’s a good idea to hit OK and come back, so you don’t lose your work when something screwy happens.

The metrics window can be used later as a final check but I don’t like to make adjustments in that window. It can be done but it keeps asking if I want to kern the class or the pair and picky stuff like that. You can try it and see if you like it; I don’t. I do all my kerning as above: Element, Font Info, Lookups, GPOS tab, expand by hitting the plus sign, double-click the subtable.

I hope this works for you.



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