FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

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FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Anton Shepelev
Hello, all

FontForge will not open the wonderful Terminus font:

       http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/

saying that

   terminus.fon  is  not  in a known format (or uses
   features of that format fontforge does  not  sup-
   port,  or  is so badly corrupted as to be unread-
   able)

After I found out that Visual Studio no longer  sup-
ports  raster  fonts,  my  only hope for comfortable
coding has been with FontForge:

   http://www.electronicdissonance.com/2010/01/raster-fonts-in-visual-studio-2010.html

Can you help?

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Js jS
you have not stated what you would like to do and what it is that you need help with?


On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 1:58 AM, Anton Shepelev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello, all

FontForge will not open the wonderful Terminus font:

       http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/

saying that

   terminus.fon  is  not  in a known format (or uses
   features of that format fontforge does  not  sup-
   port,  or  is so badly corrupted as to be unread-
   able)

After I found out that Visual Studio no longer  sup-
ports  raster  fonts,  my  only hope for comfortable
coding has been with FontForge:

   http://www.electronicdissonance.com/2010/01/raster-fonts-in-visual-studio-2010.html

Can you help?

--
Please, do not send replies to the list to my e-mail.


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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Js jS
ok, i had a closer look

you can "import" the "bdf" file from terminus, but you cannot generate an opentype or truetype font from it, only raster font

try using "courier new" font with visual studio, i have always used it with notepad++ for programming and it is pretty legible (for me anyway)



On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM, Js jS <[hidden email]> wrote:
you have not stated what you would like to do and what it is that you need help with?


On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 1:58 AM, Anton Shepelev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello, all

FontForge will not open the wonderful Terminus font:

       http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/

saying that

   terminus.fon  is  not  in a known format (or uses
   features of that format fontforge does  not  sup-
   port,  or  is so badly corrupted as to be unread-
   able)

After I found out that Visual Studio no longer  sup-
ports  raster  fonts,  my  only hope for comfortable
coding has been with FontForge:

   http://www.electronicdissonance.com/2010/01/raster-fonts-in-visual-studio-2010.html

Can you help?

--
Please, do not send replies to the list to my e-mail.


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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Anton Shepelev
In reply to this post by Js jS
Js jS:

> you have not stated what you would like to do and what it
> is that you need help with?

My mistake, but you have gussed it aright.

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Anton Shepelev
In reply to this post by Js jS
Js jS to Anton Shepelev:

> > FontForge will not open the wonderful Terminus font:
> >
> >          http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > saying that
> >
> >   terminus.fon is not in a known format (or uses
> >   features of that format fontforge does not sup port,
> >   or is so badly corrupted as to be unreadable)
>
> ok, i had a closer look

Thanks!

> you can "import" the "bdf" file from terminus, but you
> cannot generate an opentype or truetype font from it, only
> raster font.

Why not?  A vector font with each pixel drawn as vectorized
square is not impossible, although I should have to create a
separate version for each font size, see for example, this
wonderful collection of classic raster fonts in TTF:

            http://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts

> try using "courier new" font with visual studio, i have
> always used it with notepad++ for programming and it is
> pretty legible (for me anyway)

I am very picky about fonts, that why I am here, after all.
Courier is legible, but I dislike the look of it.  I use PT
Mono currently.

--
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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Dave Crossland
Hi

I guess you may need to find on github etc a script to draw the bitmap data in OpenType vectors, or write your own.

On Feb 25, 2017 12:28 AM, "Anton Shepelev" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Js jS to Anton Shepelev:

> > FontForge will not open the wonderful Terminus font:
> >
> >          http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > saying that
> >
> >   terminus.fon is not in a known format (or uses
> >   features of that format fontforge does not sup port,
> >   or is so badly corrupted as to be unreadable)
>
> ok, i had a closer look

Thanks!

> you can "import" the "bdf" file from terminus, but you
> cannot generate an opentype or truetype font from it, only
> raster font.

Why not?  A vector font with each pixel drawn as vectorized
square is not impossible, although I should have to create a
separate version for each font size, see for example, this
wonderful collection of classic raster fonts in TTF:

            http://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts

> try using "courier new" font with visual studio, i have
> always used it with notepad++ for programming and it is
> pretty legible (for me anyway)

I am very picky about fonts, that why I am here, after all.
Courier is legible, but I dislike the look of it.  I use PT
Mono currently.

--
Please, do not forward replies to my e-mail.


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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Anton Sherwood
On 2017-2-25 15:41, Dave Crossland wrote:
> I guess you may need to find on github etc a script to draw the bitmap
> data in OpenType vectors, or write your own.

Meanwhile I've been working sporadically on an algo to fit "most
graceful" curves to certain old favorite bitmap fonts.  When it works,
maybe someone with more skill would be interested enough to make it
user-friendly.

--
*\\*  Anton Sherwood  *\\*  www.bendwavy.org

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Joe
On February 26, 2017 02:20:33 PM Anton Sherwood wrote:
> Meanwhile I've been working sporadically on an algo to fit "most
> graceful" curves to certain old favorite bitmap fonts.  When it works,
> maybe someone with more skill would be interested enough to make it
> user-friendly.

I'll be interested in looking at it (when time permits).

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Dave Crossland-2
Graceful like Spiro? 

On Feb 26, 2017 4:52 PM, "Jose Da Silva" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On February 26, 2017 02:20:33 PM Anton Sherwood wrote:
> Meanwhile I've been working sporadically on an algo to fit "most
> graceful" curves to certain old favorite bitmap fonts.  When it works,
> maybe someone with more skill would be interested enough to make it
> user-friendly.

I'll be interested in looking at it (when time permits).

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Anton Sherwood
On February 26, 2017 02:20:33 PM Anton Sherwood wrote:
 >> Meanwhile I've been working sporadically on an algo to fit
 >> "most graceful" curves to certain old favorite bitmap fonts.

On 2017-2-26 21:09, Dave Crossland wrote:
> Graceful like Spiro?

I am using similar curves, but the interesting part of my approach is in
deciding by how much to miss the input points.

The goal is an outline font which, at appropriate low resolution,
matches the original bitmap dot-for-dot.  To do this, the midline of the
stroke need not touch any grid point.

My current thinking is to fit a piecewise Euler spiral to the input grid
points exactly and then relax it: for each input point, try a path that
meets all except that one, and shift the missing point to a compromise
between the grid point and the point where the test arc comes nearest --
with the constraint that the path must not miss any input point by half
a unit, nor come within half a unit of any "white" grid point.

--
*\\*  Anton Sherwood  *\\*  www.bendwavy.org

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Joe
On February 26, 2017 09:55:33 PM Anton Sherwood wrote:
> On February 26, 2017 02:20:33 PM Anton Sherwood wrote:
>  >> Meanwhile I've been working sporadically on an algo to fit
>  >> "most graceful" curves to certain old favorite bitmap fonts.
>
> On 2017-2-26 21:09, Dave Crossland wrote:
> > Graceful like Spiro?
>
> I am using similar curves, but the interesting part of my approach is in
> deciding by how much to miss the input points.

I think if you also have some user configurable decisions such as corners or
rounding, this might give your routines some flexibility from a font
designer's point of view. Some text looks better if you round the corners,
others look better if you have solid angles. Maybe a configurable radius
(tiny, medium, large, or a value like N.NN).


> The goal is an outline font which, at appropriate low resolution,
> matches the original bitmap dot-for-dot.  To do this, the midline of the
> stroke need not touch any grid point.

Low resolution fonts will be a challenge.
The URL mentioned earlier may be a worthy test-ground for testing.
http://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts


> My current thinking is to fit a piecewise Euler spiral to the input grid
> points exactly and then relax it: for each input point, try a path that
> meets all except that one, and shift the missing point to a compromise
> between the grid point and the point where the test arc comes nearest --
> with the constraint that the path must not miss any input point by half
> a unit, nor come within half a unit of any "white" grid point.

See if LibSpiro can help you, this way you can avoid re-inventing the same
wheel. My recommendation is work with the latest libspiro tag point as the
code is fairly robust and forgiving, or for additional flexibility, you can
try libspiro HEAD (which also includes 'a' and 'h').
FYI - At the moment, I'm not satisfied with libspiro in terms of the
handling the endpoints (which is why I've turned-off tests 10 and 11 in the
latest commits, but from your point of view, i don't think it should affect
you much for what you plan on doing. To better explain this, I was
attempting to turn one of the tests 90 degrees, and realized that libspiro
was not giving me the expected results when I tried starting with '[', and
therefore also 'a'. You should be okay if your start-point is a corner or a
curve, like in the example 'a' shown in the introduction.
I also suggest sticking with G2 curves 'c' to keep the results simple and
probably leave you with more control of expected results. G4 curves are a
bit more complicated (you can view it as 2 G2 curves between points).
Treat '['...']' as straight lines.
The existing libspiro code should be capable of quadratic output if you're
looking for that. It just needs a switch added, but we have been pretty
busy putting-out other more imediate fires in FontForge.

Do you have a planned license? GPL3+? Other?

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Anton Sherwood
>> On February 26, 2017 02:20:33 PM Anton Sherwood wrote:
>>  >> Meanwhile I've been working sporadically on an algo to fit
>>  >> "most graceful" curves to certain old favorite bitmap fonts.

On 2017-2-27 00:15, Jose Da Silva wrote:
> I think if you also have some user configurable decisions such as corners
> or rounding, this might give your routines some flexibility from a font
> designer's point of view. Some text looks better if you round the corners,
> others look better if you have solid angles. Maybe a configurable radius
> (tiny, medium, large, or a value like N.NN).

Heh, well, I had in mind to fit each stroke separately,
then bring them into FF and deal with overlaps by hand.


 > On February 26, 2017 09:55:33 PM Anton Sherwood wrote:
>> My current thinking is to fit a piecewise Euler spiral to the input grid
>> points exactly and then relax it: for each input point, try a path that
>> meets all except that one, and shift the missing point to a compromise
>> between the grid point and the point where the test arc comes nearest --
>> with the constraint that the path must not miss any input point by half
>> a unit, nor come within half a unit of any "white" grid point.
>
> See if LibSpiro can help you, this way you can avoid re-inventing the same
> wheel.  [...]

Is there a Python wrapper?  My C is very rusty.

Can LibSpiro tell me, for a given spiral and a point not on that spiral,
where it comes nearest?

> I also suggest sticking with G2 curves 'c' to keep the results simple [...]

Yes; though I would like to see what happens if the program runs until
it converges with G2, and then runs to improve that solution with G3 and
so on.

> Do you have a planned license? GPL3+? Other?

yah, GPL, I guess.

...
Possibly amusing:
https://bendwavy.org/wp/?p=1986
https://bendwavy.org/wp/?p=3529
https://bendwavy.org/wp/?p=3554

--
*\\*  Anton Sherwood  *\\*  www.bendwavy.org

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Joe
On March 1, 2017 01:01:50 AM Anton Sherwood wrote:
> Heh, well, I had in mind to fit each stroke separately,
> then bring them into FF and deal with overlaps by hand.

That works too. Fontforge already has several bells and whistles ready, so
don't need to reinvent that wheel either. Good idea.


> > See if LibSpiro can help you, this way you can avoid re-inventing the
> > same wheel.  [...]
>
> Is there a Python wrapper?  My C is very rusty.

I have not had time to look through fontforge/python.c, so not sure what it
has already. I know I would have to add 'a' and 'h' handling in any case.
Checking google, seems someone already created a python wrapper.

I'd be interested to hear feedback if you do want to try it out.
https://github.com/perey/PySpiro



> Can LibSpiro tell me, for a given spiral and a point not on that spiral,
> where it comes nearest?

The way you use spiro, is by creating 'knot' points where you want curves
to cross through, for example, if you want spiro to cross through:
{x0=0.0,y0=0.0}, {x1=2.0,y1=3.0}, {x2=3.0,y2=7.0}
spiro will attempt to find the best curve fits to cross through those points.
Sometimes, some curves are just not possible, and libspiro will let you
know it tried, but was not able to find a solution to fit your choice of
points.

This example doesn't have straight lines, but it's a short example.
Using a test input pattern (tests/call-test1):
80, 738, '{'
749, 540, 'o'
671, 309, 'o'
521, 396, 'o'
377, 333, 'o'
467, 231, '}'
spiro makes six attempts and comes out with a solution like:

moveto(80,738)_1
mark_knot()_0
curveto(172.314,664.426, 287.04,622.654, 403.914,606.06)
curveto(462.352,597.763, 521.42,594.908, 580.064,588.226)
curveto(638.708,581.543, 698.554,570.643, 749,540)
mark_knot()_1
curveto(776.321,523.404, 800.431,500.639, 815.305,472.344)
curveto(830.178,444.049, 835.075,410.104, 826.082,379.43)
curveto(817.089,348.755, 793.992,322.521, 764.639,309.862)
curveto(735.286,297.204, 701.137,298.343, 671,309)
mark_knot()_2
curveto(643.661,318.667, 619.475,335.4, 595.839,352.199)
curveto(572.203,368.998, 548.225,386.017, 521,396)
mark_knot()_3
curveto(493.059,406.245, 461.39,408.353, 433.721,397.395)
curveto(419.886,391.915, 407.262,383.305, 397.36,372.199)
curveto(387.457,361.092, 380.322,347.504, 377,333)
mark_knot()_4
curveto(371.073,307.121, 378.034,278.522, 395.545,258.566)
curveto(413.056,238.61, 440.626,227.952, 467,231)
end

If you do:
./configure --enable-verbose_lib
make check
then run:
tests/call-test1
you'll see the info shown above.

>
> > I also suggest sticking with G2 curves 'c' to keep the results simple
> > [...]
>
> Yes; though I would like to see what happens if the program runs until
> it converges with G2, and then runs to improve that solution with G3 and
> so on.

Libspiro starts out with an assumed expansion, but then expands it further
for best fit. For example, it will start out by giving space for 2 more
points to make a G2 curve, and will start-out with an array expansion of an
extra 4 points to make a G4 curve, but as it tries to fit a solution, the
array can/will expand in some places


> > Do you have a planned license? GPL3+? Other?
>
> yah, GPL, I guess.
>
> ...
> Possibly amusing:
> https://bendwavy.org/wp/?p=1986
> https://bendwavy.org/wp/?p=3529
> https://bendwavy.org/wp/?p=3554

Interesting.

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Nathan Willis-4
In reply to this post by Anton Sherwood


On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 5:55 AM, Anton Sherwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
On February 26, 2017 02:20:33 PM Anton Sherwood wrote:
 >> Meanwhile I've been working sporadically on an algo to fit
 >> "most graceful" curves to certain old favorite bitmap fonts.

On 2017-2-26 21:09, Dave Crossland wrote:
> Graceful like Spiro?

I am using similar curves, but the interesting part of my approach is in
deciding by how much to miss the input points.

The goal is an outline font which, at appropriate low resolution,
matches the original bitmap dot-for-dot.  To do this, the midline of the
stroke need not touch any grid point.


Anton,

Have you read what Bigelow & Holmes wrote about their experience converting Apple's system bitmap fonts to TrueType in the 90s, hopefully?

The tools available have evolved considerably since then, of course, but I'm sure their insights to the issues would be worth seeing.  There are a lot of design decisions that crop up when you're out in the weeds, for instance, like the drastic differences you get in proportions between different bitmap-point-sizes.  Today we could account for that by having optical-size variants, which would be fascinating to explore as a project.

Nate
 
My current thinking is to fit a piecewise Euler spiral to the input grid
points exactly and then relax it: for each input point, try a path that
meets all except that one, and shift the missing point to a compromise
between the grid point and the point where the test arc comes nearest --
with the constraint that the path must not miss any input point by half
a unit, nor come within half a unit of any "white" grid point.

--
*\\*  Anton Sherwood  *\\*  www.bendwavy.org

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--
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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Anton Shepelev
In reply to this post by Anton Shepelev
I wrote:

>FontForge  will  not  open  the  wonderful Terminus
>font:
>
>       http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/
>
>saying that
>
>   terminus.fon  is  not  in a known format (or us-
>   es  features  of  that format fontforge does not
>   support, or is so badly corrupted as to  be  un-
>   readable)

If that is because Terminus is a multi-size and mul-
ti-style font, Fony should help, but its homepage is
no longer alive:

   http://hukka.furtopia.org/projects/fony/

It seems, however, available elsewhence, e.g.:

   http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Graphic/Graphic-Editors/Fony.shtml

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Anton Shepelev
In reply to this post by Dave Crossland
Dave Crossland:

>I guess you may need to find on github etc a script
>to draw the bitmap data  in  OpenType  vectors,  or
>write your own.

Indeed.   The author of the Ultimate old-school font
pack said he used therefor the Bits'N'Pical convert-
er:   https://github.com/kreativekorp/bitsnpicas   .

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Anton Shepelev
In reply to this post by Anton Shepelev
I wrote:

>If  that  is  because  Terminus is a multi-size and
>multi-style font, Fony should help, but  its  home-
>page is no longer alive:
>
>   http://hukka.furtopia.org/projects/fony
>
>It seems, however, available elsewhence, e.g.:
>
>   http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Graphic/Graphic-Editors/Fony.shtml

Fony is alive and thriving.  Its new home is here:

   http://hukka.ncn.fi/?fony

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Anton Sherwood
In reply to this post by Nathan Willis-4
On 2017-3-02 00:18, Nathan Willis wrote:
> Have you read what Bigelow & Holmes wrote about their experience
> converting Apple's system bitmap fonts to TrueType in the 90s, hopefully?

I've read something about it, but not recently!

> The tools available have evolved considerably since then, of course, but
> I'm sure their insights to the issues would be worth seeing.  There are
> a lot of design decisions that crop up when you're out in the weeds, for
> instance, like the drastic differences you get in proportions between
> different bitmap-point-sizes.  Today we could account for that by having
> optical-size variants, which would be fascinating to explore as a project.

Fortunately ;) the font at the top of my agenda, that of the PLATO IV
terminal, has only one size.  But I have pondered what's the Right Way
to approach Apple Geneva, for example.

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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Js jS
here is a rough python script that may get you started

instructions are in the file at top

you will need a bdf file


copy one of the bdf files from the downloaded archive into the same folder as your font file

the script is really rough ... it throws an error on empty glyphs ... you have to create all glyphs before you run it  ... just edit one glyph (any glyph)  ... put in a single point  ... and then copy the glyph to all the other glyphs in the font file (select ... copy ... select all ... paste)

set em = 4096

then run this script by copying into the script window and clicking OK











On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Anton Sherwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2017-3-02 00:18, Nathan Willis wrote:
> Have you read what Bigelow & Holmes wrote about their experience
> converting Apple's system bitmap fonts to TrueType in the 90s, hopefully?

I've read something about it, but not recently!

> The tools available have evolved considerably since then, of course, but
> I'm sure their insights to the issues would be worth seeing.  There are
> a lot of design decisions that crop up when you're out in the weeds, for
> instance, like the drastic differences you get in proportions between
> different bitmap-point-sizes.  Today we could account for that by having
> optical-size variants, which would be fascinating to explore as a project.

Fortunately ;) the font at the top of my agenda, that of the PLATO IV
terminal, has only one size.  But I have pondered what's the Right Way
to approach Apple Geneva, for example.

--
*\\*  Anton Sherwood  *\\*  www.bendwavy.org

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draw bdf into ttf.py (3K) Download Attachment
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Re: FontForge will not open the Terminus raster font

Js jS
i figured how to create characters before drawing into them, so now you just get the bdf file, start new font and run the script

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:15 AM, Js jS <[hidden email]> wrote:
here is a rough python script that may get you started

instructions are in the file at top

you will need a bdf file


copy one of the bdf files from the downloaded archive into the same folder as your font file

the script is really rough ... it throws an error on empty glyphs ... you have to create all glyphs before you run it  ... just edit one glyph (any glyph)  ... put in a single point  ... and then copy the glyph to all the other glyphs in the font file (select ... copy ... select all ... paste)

set em = 4096

then run this script by copying into the script window and clicking OK











On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Anton Sherwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2017-3-02 00:18, Nathan Willis wrote:
> Have you read what Bigelow & Holmes wrote about their experience
> converting Apple's system bitmap fonts to TrueType in the 90s, hopefully?

I've read something about it, but not recently!

> The tools available have evolved considerably since then, of course, but
> I'm sure their insights to the issues would be worth seeing.  There are
> a lot of design decisions that crop up when you're out in the weeds, for
> instance, like the drastic differences you get in proportions between
> different bitmap-point-sizes.  Today we could account for that by having
> optical-size variants, which would be fascinating to explore as a project.

Fortunately ;) the font at the top of my agenda, that of the PLATO IV
terminal, has only one size.  But I have pondered what's the Right Way
to approach Apple Geneva, for example.

--
*\\*  Anton Sherwood  *\\*  www.bendwavy.org

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draw bdf into ttf.py (3K) Download Attachment
12